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	<title>Comments on: Getting Real About High-Speed Rail</title>
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	<description>Your daily source for national transportation policy news and analysis.</description>
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		<title>By: inwoodist</title>
		<link>http://dc.streetsblog.org/2009/06/03/getting-real-about-high-speed-rail/comment-page-1/#comment-75921</link>
		<dc:creator>inwoodist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6308#comment-75921</guid>
		<description>The point about smokers seems like a red herring. Are anti-smoking regulations deterring any smokers from flying?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point about smokers seems like a red herring. Are anti-smoking regulations deterring any smokers from flying?</p>
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		<title>By: Howard Kelly</title>
		<link>http://dc.streetsblog.org/2009/06/03/getting-real-about-high-speed-rail/comment-page-1/#comment-71127</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6308#comment-71127</guid>
		<description>&quot;Well, like it or not, it what might be the only measure to trigger the massive change we need. While it is nice to dream of all manners of clever policy measures than can produce the transformation we need, try and think of such measures that have actually lead change in the past.&quot;

How are you defining &quot;massive change&quot;?  It seems to me that a bigger &quot;change&quot; in people&#039;s livelihoods, energy use, automobile use, quality of life, etc., etc., would come from getting their daily trips into walking or transit, rather than long-distance trips that they do not take as often.

It seems to me that throwing literally billions at high speed rail to connect places like Dallas and Houston is going to do less than to take a hard look at Dallas and figure out ways to improve daily transit usage there.  Maybe we can set up more express buses, rail, light rail, trolleys, whatever, that focus on nodes and hubs and new mixed use destinations.  Maybe new growth can take place within the existing developed footprint of the DFW metro&#039;s cities.

I think the HSR thing is a great concept, but it might not need to be our first priority, and it surely costs a lot (both in monetary terms and in terms of the energy investment needed to build it).  Getting Joe Commuter out of the car ten trips a week by providing him with a transit option to his job goes a lot further toward improving his life than providing for him on his monthly trip to visit Grandma in Houston, and it probably costs a whole lot less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Well, like it or not, it what might be the only measure to trigger the massive change we need. While it is nice to dream of all manners of clever policy measures than can produce the transformation we need, try and think of such measures that have actually lead change in the past.&#8221;</p>
<p>How are you defining &#8220;massive change&#8221;?  It seems to me that a bigger &#8220;change&#8221; in people&#8217;s livelihoods, energy use, automobile use, quality of life, etc., etc., would come from getting their daily trips into walking or transit, rather than long-distance trips that they do not take as often.</p>
<p>It seems to me that throwing literally billions at high speed rail to connect places like Dallas and Houston is going to do less than to take a hard look at Dallas and figure out ways to improve daily transit usage there.  Maybe we can set up more express buses, rail, light rail, trolleys, whatever, that focus on nodes and hubs and new mixed use destinations.  Maybe new growth can take place within the existing developed footprint of the DFW metro&#8217;s cities.</p>
<p>I think the HSR thing is a great concept, but it might not need to be our first priority, and it surely costs a lot (both in monetary terms and in terms of the energy investment needed to build it).  Getting Joe Commuter out of the car ten trips a week by providing him with a transit option to his job goes a lot further toward improving his life than providing for him on his monthly trip to visit Grandma in Houston, and it probably costs a whole lot less.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Turner</title>
		<link>http://dc.streetsblog.org/2009/06/03/getting-real-about-high-speed-rail/comment-page-1/#comment-71126</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 04:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6308#comment-71126</guid>
		<description>Johnny, actually 1 in 6 in the US are smokers, as of 2007. Among people 25-44, however, it&#039;s closer to 1 in 4.

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_10_2X_Cigarette_Smoking.asp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Johnny, actually 1 in 6 in the US are smokers, as of 2007. Among people 25-44, however, it&#8217;s closer to 1 in 4.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_10_2X_Cigarette_Smoking.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_10_2X_Cigarette_Smoking.asp</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cap'n Transit</title>
		<link>http://dc.streetsblog.org/2009/06/03/getting-real-about-high-speed-rail/comment-page-1/#comment-71125</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap'n Transit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 00:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6308#comment-71125</guid>
		<description>At one point I was an occasional rider on the Harlem Line of Metro-North, and they would sometimes run very old cars that still had the &quot;No Spitting&quot; signs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At one point I was an occasional rider on the Harlem Line of Metro-North, and they would sometimes run very old cars that still had the &#8220;No Spitting&#8221; signs.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Walker</title>
		<link>http://dc.streetsblog.org/2009/06/03/getting-real-about-high-speed-rail/comment-page-1/#comment-71124</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 00:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6308#comment-71124</guid>
		<description>Interesting point about smokers, but they still have the gum, the patch, and snuff (I&#039;d prefer not to share a train with users of chewing tobacco).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting point about smokers, but they still have the gum, the patch, and snuff (I&#8217;d prefer not to share a train with users of chewing tobacco).</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://dc.streetsblog.org/2009/06/03/getting-real-about-high-speed-rail/comment-page-1/#comment-71123</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 23:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6308#comment-71123</guid>
		<description>&quot;Trouble with trains and their use is going to be accomidating smokers in the current anti-smoking PC environment. Smokers still make up 1 in 4 adults, and they will not sit still for much longer than an hour or so without wanting a puff, and this might affect their decision to ride the train or drive their own car.&quot;

 No trouble at all, smokers will still be able to exercise their right to stay home or drive their own vehicle. Heck, they may even choose their constitutionally protected right to quit!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Trouble with trains and their use is going to be accomidating smokers in the current anti-smoking PC environment. Smokers still make up 1 in 4 adults, and they will not sit still for much longer than an hour or so without wanting a puff, and this might affect their decision to ride the train or drive their own car.&#8221;</p>
<p> No trouble at all, smokers will still be able to exercise their right to stay home or drive their own vehicle. Heck, they may even choose their constitutionally protected right to quit!</p>
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		<title>By: Johnnyb</title>
		<link>http://dc.streetsblog.org/2009/06/03/getting-real-about-high-speed-rail/comment-page-1/#comment-71122</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnnyb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 23:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6308#comment-71122</guid>
		<description>High speed trains make sense from an energy security point of view, no need to bring speculative claims of global warming into anything.

Trouble with bringing these things only to high population areas is that they will be most expensive to construct there and distort the costs which might be realized in the plains states which could be significantly less due to the fact that they are not densely populated and they are dead flat.

Why not build one between Dallas and Houston, then Houston to San Antonio and San Antonio, Austin, Waco, Dallas.  By linking all of these cities the majority of the population of Texas could be served by passenger rails, and it would be a lot cheaper than building in California or the Eastern Corridor, because there would be less need for expensive stations, special infrastructure to account for existing population, terrain like mountains or siesemic activity.

Diesel spurs could be used initially to connect smaller cities like Lubbock and Amarillo, while air planes could continue to be used to connect far western cities like El Paso.

Trouble with trains and their use is going to be accomidating smokers in the current anti-smoking PC environment.  Smokers still make up 1 in 4 adults, and they will not sit still for much longer than an hour or so without wanting a puff, and this might affect their decision to ride the train or drive their own car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>High speed trains make sense from an energy security point of view, no need to bring speculative claims of global warming into anything.</p>
<p>Trouble with bringing these things only to high population areas is that they will be most expensive to construct there and distort the costs which might be realized in the plains states which could be significantly less due to the fact that they are not densely populated and they are dead flat.</p>
<p>Why not build one between Dallas and Houston, then Houston to San Antonio and San Antonio, Austin, Waco, Dallas.  By linking all of these cities the majority of the population of Texas could be served by passenger rails, and it would be a lot cheaper than building in California or the Eastern Corridor, because there would be less need for expensive stations, special infrastructure to account for existing population, terrain like mountains or siesemic activity.</p>
<p>Diesel spurs could be used initially to connect smaller cities like Lubbock and Amarillo, while air planes could continue to be used to connect far western cities like El Paso.</p>
<p>Trouble with trains and their use is going to be accomidating smokers in the current anti-smoking PC environment.  Smokers still make up 1 in 4 adults, and they will not sit still for much longer than an hour or so without wanting a puff, and this might affect their decision to ride the train or drive their own car.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Campbell</title>
		<link>http://dc.streetsblog.org/2009/06/03/getting-real-about-high-speed-rail/comment-page-1/#comment-71121</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 23:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6308#comment-71121</guid>
		<description>Well, like it or not, it what might be the only measure to trigger the massive change we need. While it is nice to dream of all manners of clever policy measures than can produce the transformation we need, try and think of such measures that have actually lead change in the past.

The reality is that people want solutions that they are actually excited about. Ones that are better than what is currently available. High speed rail is simply better, faster and more comfortable transportation than driving or flying.

High speed rail will encourage the development of hub and spoke transportation patterns that are best serviced by light rail, subways and buses. It will encourage energy efficient dense development around stations and transit lines feeding the high speed rail system. People will want to live and work near stations. People will be able to live their lives without a car. This will enable the enactment of the other policies needed to decrease auto use such as road pricing, pay as you drive insurance, congestion pricing, growth boundaries, etc. Anyway, high speed rail is pretty much all Democrats and Republicans can agree on. That&#039;s why it made it into the stimulus.

More at:
http://everyoneforever.org/blogger/labels/High%20Speed%20Rail.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, like it or not, it what might be the only measure to trigger the massive change we need. While it is nice to dream of all manners of clever policy measures than can produce the transformation we need, try and think of such measures that have actually lead change in the past.</p>
<p>The reality is that people want solutions that they are actually excited about. Ones that are better than what is currently available. High speed rail is simply better, faster and more comfortable transportation than driving or flying.</p>
<p>High speed rail will encourage the development of hub and spoke transportation patterns that are best serviced by light rail, subways and buses. It will encourage energy efficient dense development around stations and transit lines feeding the high speed rail system. People will want to live and work near stations. People will be able to live their lives without a car. This will enable the enactment of the other policies needed to decrease auto use such as road pricing, pay as you drive insurance, congestion pricing, growth boundaries, etc. Anyway, high speed rail is pretty much all Democrats and Republicans can agree on. That&#8217;s why it made it into the stimulus.</p>
<p>More at:<br />
<a href="http://everyoneforever.org/blogger/labels/High%20Speed%20Rail.html" rel="nofollow">http://everyoneforever.org/blogger/labels/High%20Speed%20Rail.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: gecko</title>
		<link>http://dc.streetsblog.org/2009/06/03/getting-real-about-high-speed-rail/comment-page-1/#comment-71120</link>
		<dc:creator>gecko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streetsblog.org/?p=6308#comment-71120</guid>
		<description>re:  &quot;Kete, who says the US needs to be emitting 80 percent less CO2 by 2050, &#039;at the minimum,&#039; cautions against seeing a nationwide high-speed rail network as a quick fix to our carbon problems.&quot;

This is quite refreshing as there is a kind of totally misguided knee-jerk attitude that expensive massive vehicle transit is the best way to go.

The Dirt also promotes a very important idea that cities can generate energy (negawatts) and start to reverse climate change is very valid and deserves a lot of focus; and, even more advanced and exciting would the development of building and growth processes with similar net-positive effects. After all, people -- and living things -- usually have a net-positive effect on information.  Why not energy and environmental improvement as well?

(http://dirt.asla.org/2009/05/22/moving-from-sustainable-to-positive-climate-development-in-cities/)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re:  &#8220;Kete, who says the US needs to be emitting 80 percent less CO2 by 2050, &#8216;at the minimum,&#8217; cautions against seeing a nationwide high-speed rail network as a quick fix to our carbon problems.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is quite refreshing as there is a kind of totally misguided knee-jerk attitude that expensive massive vehicle transit is the best way to go.</p>
<p>The Dirt also promotes a very important idea that cities can generate energy (negawatts) and start to reverse climate change is very valid and deserves a lot of focus; and, even more advanced and exciting would the development of building and growth processes with similar net-positive effects. After all, people &#8212; and living things &#8212; usually have a net-positive effect on information.  Why not energy and environmental improvement as well?</p>
<p>(<a href="http://dirt.asla.org/2009/05/22/moving-from-sustainable-to-positive-climate-development-in-cities/" rel="nofollow">http://dirt.asla.org/2009/05/22/moving-from-sustainable-to-positive-climate-development-in-cities/</a>)</p>
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